Treating hirsutism: case #2
Turkish woman who has hirsutism and alcopecia. In the first week, there were significant improvements in scalp hair.
- hairloss (during cycle); thining scalp hair; minor facial/body hair
- weightloss especially around hips and butt; low amounts of fat near breasts
- cold feet and hands
- mood swings; irritability; premenstrual syndrome
- heavy and long duration periods
Likely cause: overuse (high doses) of fenugreek. Fenugreek often temporarily and partially works, but when its phytohormones break down, those metabolites are androgenic.
For the herb recommendations, minimal amounts of an herb will refer to equal parts of approximately 20mg to 50mg (definitely no more than 75mg) of a solid dried herb.
- Bust: 29
- Underside: 6.5cm (2½")
- Hips: 80cm (31½")
It is important to not repeat teas that contain hops, thistles or clover soon after estrogenic and progestogenic effects. It is also important to avoid coffee, chocolates, caffeine, and warming or energy increasing herbs/foods. Estrogenic foods may also need to be avoided during proliferative phase. Regular fat chocolate milk in moderation may be ok, because milk seems to counter many caffeinated like effects of chocolate. Milk chocolate bars don't have this benefit.
When something works well, caution must still be taken the next time around. A thermometer may be needed, and attention to detail of signs must be taken. When something works, it's not guaranteed to work the next time.
[fenugreek, sunflower, spearmint, hops,
[Fennel is no longer recommended with this, and it is non-essential.]
The previous suggestion for near the beginning of menses, was a tea of minimal and equal amounts (20-50mg) each of: spearmint, fenugreek, sunflower and hops. [Minimal doses were estimated.] Hops was increased [to about 3 times the amount of other individual herbs], and [an about equal amount of] fennel was [used]. [Herb doses likely not to be repeated for the rest of menses, because while there's estrogenic signs, it may interfere.]
Body temperature was cold before the tea, and still cold afterwards. It's expected to normalize tomorrow. After an hour, breasts are fuller. Menstruation intensity hasn't increased, and mood is described as neutral.
Next day update: lower menstruation intensity than previous cycles, less pimples than before she took the tea, less pimples than previous cycles, breasts fuller than day before, temperature also normalized since yesterday, slight headache which lowered throughout the day.
A herb dose won't be repeated today, because the effects of the last herbal tea are still prominent. Repeating this too soon may cause opposite effects than desired. Fennel and hops amounts would be lowered.
Nothing was taken since the first dose for menses. There were still positive effects, since then.
Breast dimensions increased a bit, with slightly more underneath fullness. There was breast tingling yesterday, and growth happened since then. Underside: 8cm (3"). There is less tingling today. Hip measurements remained the same. These measurements may not last past proliferative, but hormone symptoms have improved significantly.
There's less scalp hair fallout, but body hair changes are insignificant. Head hair is also less oily than typically. There is also less acne, and less pimples.
Regular fat chocolate milk was taken the day before, and it had no noticeable negative effects.
There were no noticeable changes in breast or hip size. However, aerola, areolar gland and nipple development was noticed. There were less hormonal symptoms: less headache and less cramps. Menstruation intensity is low. No hair fallout, but no noticeable changes in body hair. Mood slightly improved again.
For the second or last dose of menses [taken today after noticing effects], she took tea of: [smaller than last dose] minimal amounts each of spearmint, fenugreek and [a bit more] sunflower, and [two times] as much fennel and hops [than these minimal amounts].
New hairs on scalp, but no noticeable changes in body hair. Body temperature normalized.
Breasts described as heavier the next day; widening in shape and slight widening of base (hopefully mostly permanent). Hips are the same size.
Taking a break until proliferative.
Later in day update: hairs on face less noticeable, continued hair growth on scalp. No further change in hips or bust measurement for end of proliferative. But, perhaps slightly fuller. 7cm (2¾") for underside. The amount of [fennel] should be lowered, [and] the second dose [for menses should] be ommitted.
Results started off good, but on the 3rd day after taking another herbal tea, negative effects started returning. Nothing else was taken. New hairs were growing where hair was missing. There was still hair loss, but less than before. Skin was clearing up. Breasts widened, but the measurements remained about the same.
Less than an hour later, negative and other signs started showing. Temperature lowered, brown spotting started, slight body hair started appearing, pimples started showing, there was minor itchy scalp, and mood got worse. So far, symptoms are still better than before the program started. Menses should have lasted shorter from 3 to 4 days.
From now on, for hormone imbalances, a herb dose will only be used once for the beginning of menses. The amount of fennel will also be reduced for that dose. The recommendation is to eat an apple or half a cup of brown rice when negative symptoms start appearing.
There was more minor breast growth for the rest of menses, which duration was extended unintentionally, likely by additional use of fennel. The improvement of scalp hair remained the same. Unfortunately, there was additional growth of leg hair.
[fenugreek, sunflower, spearmint, milkthistle]
For the next cycle, once menses started, she took the other half of a tea of: minimal amounts each of fenugreek, sunflower, spearmint, and about 50mg of milkthistles (Silybum). Hops should normally be used in place of thistles.
There was minor hip and breast growth from this. Minor breast increases continued on through the next day. Hair conditions have improved a bit. There were mild cramps that went away. Menses intensity was low for the first day, but increased a bit for the next. Breast massage was used in an attempt to raise prolactin. Menses intensity lowered, perhaps on its own, or perhaps in part to breast massage.
Breast width increased to fit B cup bra.
Minor breast increases and hair improvements could continue for the next few days. She will take a break from herbs until proliferative.
Minor breast growth continued, until the 3rd day of menses. On the fourth day, there was brown spotting. Because of these results, hops should be used instead of milkthistle for menses.
For the start of proliferative, she took a pinch each of: fenugreek, fennel and sunflower. (Spearmint wasn't used). There was later minor breast growth, with widening around the base. Breast fullness went down after a few hours. Hip growth. Acne lowered. More hairs on legs, but they became thinner.
For the rest of proliferative, she will use only minimal amounts each of fennel and sunflower (without fenugreek) about once per day, only after positive results.
After taking tea of 3 ground up sunflower seeds and comparable amount of fennel, there was minor breast and hip widening, a few hours later.
She will repeat with varying amounts of fennel and sunflower.
She took a portion of fennel and sunflower tea a few times.
Breast underside is 9cm (3½"), and breasts are described as wider. Hips widened, and butt became more defined, but measurement of hips is .5cm smaller than since the beginning.
Less body hair, and less acne. Body and facial hair is not growing back as quickly, and is lighter. Body temperature is also low.
A minimal amount of spearmint is needed with fennel and sunflower for hormonal balance. A pinch of fenugreek will be tried for now with higher amounts of fennel and sunflower.
Breasts seemed to grow a bit more in a few hours. However, temperature is low at 34.7°C, and she feels dizzy. She will take a break, until temperature normalizes to 36°C.
Body temperature, cramps, hip size and other signs should be monitored during proliferative.
The next day, breasts grew and hips stayed the same. Body hair is thinner. The day before, there were discomforting cramps from the upper legs to the lower back and abdominal region suggesting mineralocorticoid action on steroid receptors. Later cramps went away and body temperature normalized. She will take a break until the evening or the next day. Fennel will be in a higher proportion (under 300mg), and spearmint and sunflower will be minimal.
For those reading, don't over do herbs, and exercise patience even when there are desired outcomes. Limit herb use to no more than once a day, and wait for body temperature to normalize and for cramps to go away. Proliferative is when there is buildup of tissue in the uterus, and this shouldn't be overdone.
Hair on legs lowered. But breasts lost width, and underside measurement went down. Breasts possibly got longer. This indicates that sunflower should be at a minimal amount, and fennel should be in the highest amount. If spearmint and fenugreek are used, their amounts should be absolutely minimal. Amounts of fennel still shouldn't be overdone.
Then she took a tea with more fennel, and breasts gained in width and length, so underside measurement increased to its last high. Overall, there was nipple and aerola development.
She took a tea with more fennel, and it caused more breast wideness with a minor increase in underside measurement.
Coconut oil, sunflower, with and without spearmint had mixed results. With both, breasts widened more only at the base, but underside shrank. With spearmint, breast width and topside grew, but more body hair appeared. It lacked fennel.
Returning to herb combination that worked consistently well, then taking a break. Fenugreek also doesn't work well during late proliferative, intended for hips; either needs more sunflower or should be avoided here.
Touching hops caused a hormone imbalance. Breast and hip shrinking occured. Next herbal teas didn't compensate for this. Body hair increased, but fortunately, previous scalp hair improvements were largely retained. This was days ago.
For the start of next proliferative, before mucus starts, she will try a tea of: a minimal amount of spearmint, and 1 lightly smashed seed each of fenugreek, sunflower, sesame and flax.
For the first or second day of secretory, she took minimal amounts each of fenugreek and sunflower. That day, there was an improvement in symptoms, and there were minor breast gains.
By the next day, there were mostly improvements from this dose. Breasts and hips slightly grew. Shape of breasts mostly got wider. Temperature also raised to normal levels for secretory. The only bad result was more body hair. Hair on scalp, however, improved more.
Later, taking sunflower alone caused minor breast lengthening, but not an easily measurable result. Temperature temporarily lowered, but hours later it rose to 36.5°C. Unfortunately, itchy scalp started, then moments later, acne started. Fiber was eaten when she had itchy scalp. While she had acne, she took a tea of sunflower, fenugreek and fennel. Fenugreek would have to do for the partially estrogenic herb.
Fennel is no longer recommended for secretory (so it should no longer be used for this phase). Hops is still suggested for this phase with spearmint, but not for those who've had bad reactions to it.
During premenstrual, she has bloating, breast swelling, discomforts and negative mood. This is likely from low progesterone, high estrogen and high corticosteroids.
She was going to take a tea with [moderate amounts and about equal parts of] fennel and hops, and minimal amount each of spearmint, fenugreek and sunflower.
Fenugreek, spearmint and sunflower are in minimal amounts. Sunflower is ground/crushed to be in about equal volume to fenugreek. Spearmint is fresh, so it is expected to be more potent, so a cut piece of leaf will be in equal area (not depth) to the fenugreek and ground sunflower. Ground/crushed hops and fennel will be 3 times more than the other herbs.
[As she was preparing it,] menses has started. [Handling hops, spearmint and perhaps other herbs possibly had an effect on this.]
Fennel should not be used for premenstrual phase. It is powerful enough that it tries to start menses sooner, yet it doesn't seem to provide antagonism for ERα.
She took [half of a] tea of: minimal amounts each of fenugreek, sunflower, spearmint, and about 50mg of milkthistles (Silybum). Within a few hours later, there was breast and hip tingling. Temperature was 36.6°C. Later that evening there was breast widening, and minor hip widening. Areolas also widened a bit.
There were cramps from this. Menses started by the next day. It perhaps should of had wild yam.