Here is the theory and proposed herb combinations based on each other, herb properties, literature and on effects from past results. If this provides effective consistent and lasting breast growth for you, public entries can be left. It is also helpful to know what is not as effective, especially in the presence of hormone imbalances.
These herb proposals are not meant to be experimented with by those with hormone imbalances, until they become proven for consistency and by more people.
[A slightly older entry was moved from another program blog.]
Overall theory of herb use
For the beginning of each ovulatory phase, based on the status of the ovarian follicle or corpus luteum, there will be a herb combination to set the hormone balance for the body for that phase. A break should be taken every other day, so the body can balance out hormones on its own to lessen the chances of hormone imbalances.
In theory, a different herb combination can be taken on the same day while there is breast swelling for a proposed positive (and agonist) effect on resensitized steroid hormone receptors. Repeating the same herb combination while there is breast swelling, allows the body's hormones to have their effect on those resensitized receptors, which is not always the hormone effects desired. Under a teaspoon of olive or coconut oil should be taken with the first or only herb dose of the day. More on the past workings of the theory is in super-bazongas.pdf
Steroid hormone receptors include progesterone receptors A and B (PR), estrogen receptor alpha (ERα), estrogen receptor beta (ERβ) and androgen receptors (AR). Luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and prolactin (Prl) are gonadal hormones that work directly on thier respective receptors.
Breast swelling, and not overwhelming hormone capacity
The herb combination taken when there is breast swelling or temporary growth during proliferative and secretory phases must be carefully considered. Repeating a dose can cause more temporary growth or breast swelling, but it can also cause the body to react by countering the hormone effects of those phytohormones, by lowering the similar hormones then, breast size can return to previous or smaller sizes.
When a herb containing estrogen analogs is taken during proliferative, there already is an excess of estrogen, so the body responds by lowering estrogen response. The result is a reduction in breast size or of less hip fat. Clover, hops and pueraria are examples of this. Fenugreek can only be used scarcely at the beginning of proliferative phase. Evening primrose use should be scarce during proliferative, but it requires multiple antagonist phytohormone containing herbs.
During secretory, the theory and practice is similar, but then, progesterone simile herbs should be taken with care. Wild yam and fennel apply. The body also produces both estrogen and progesterone, so the effects are less negative from these. Fenugreek is often needed for its progesterone properties, and there's more tolerance for it, because it also provides estrogenic properties. Fennel also provides antagonistic properties on the breasts. Fennel and fenugreek should be in minimal amounts, perhaps limited to less than once a day at the beginning of secretory, and avoided while there is breast swelling or soon after temporary growth, at least.
The minimal dose of solid herb will be lowered to a maximum of about 65mg, but to no lower than about 25mg. The previous minimal dose will be changed to ½ of 1 part dose. This will give better control of proportions, especially for readily available herbs like spearmint and fennel, which should be used in the lowest amounts. The amounts in the programs will be usually stated in miligrams. For supplements that it is difficult to split the amounts to lower quantities, use the lowest dose you can, but use the herb schedule less often.
BCP use, [and] note on past use
If birth control pill (BCP) is used, in theory, it should be used with herbs that increase sensitivity of ERα, ERβ and PR (R represents receptors). Spear or pepper mint behaves as an ERα antagonist. Spearmint (under 65mg per day) may also be needed for mild androgenic properties, to keep estrogen production sensitive. Lavender and sunflower behave as as ERβ antagonists. Ginseng on paper is an antagonist of ERα, ERβ and androgen receptor (AR), but ginseng hasn't been thoroughly investigated enough in use. Hops is a PR antagonist. Hops generally doesn't work well for breast enhancement during proliferative. Estrogen from BCP or from the body is possibly a progesterone antagonist. Both estrogen receptors (ER) seem to need all of, an estrogen agonist, and multiple ER antagonists at the same time.
When BCP was used in the past, it has caused breast swelling, but if its use was started or stopped during proliferative phase, then symptoms of acne, hirsutism and minor breast shrinking would come about. BCP also causes an equlibrium that it stops causing breast growth for some, after months of use for some. BCP also works better for those with higher body fat. It has worked partially well for those with low body fat: it can contribute excess breakdown metabolites of progesterone which include androgens and corticosteroids.
Theory update: Repeating herb combinations
The theory has been updated on when to repeat herb doses. In theory, when breast swelling or temporary growth starts to go down, up until while there is acne, is when to repeat a herb dose. This may be a sign that progesterone [or phytoprogesterone] is starting to break down, thus providing antagonism for another herb dose to be repeated.
Repeating a herb combination while there is maximum breast swelling, may potentially cause a boomerang effect on hormone response on the breasts, perhaps responsible for fluctuations in breast size. Waiting too long, when there is itchy scalp or other androgenic symptoms may not provide favorable results either. While there is acne, it's fine to repeat, but soon after, it's not. When there is a high amount of androgens, androgenic response my be increased by repeating a herb combination. When there is itchy scalp or other androgenic symptoms, it is better to eat fiber such as brown rice, and take a break.
Timing herb combinations
After a herb combination that causes positive effects and after breast swelling goes down, effects of acne or itchy scalp can happen in a different order. Acne is usually expected to come first, before the sensation of itchy scalp. When itchy scalp or other androgenic symptoms occur, an apple or brown rice will seemingly help lower these negative effects. It has happened before that taking the full herb combination intended for full effects, caused positive effects while there was acne, even after itchy scalp occured. It would be more certain to eat fiber while there is itchy scalp and for acne that occurs afterward.
The basis for repeating herb combinations still applies to soon after waking the next morning, but the body's hormonal state during this time may be more difficult to determine. Repeating the full herb dose can cause breast shrinking while they have just temporarily grown or are swollen: upon waking seems to have the same effects. An antagonist herb combination in theory should be used for while there is new growth or breast swelling. The antagonist herb combination should be respective to the full herb combination. A minimal amount each of spearmint, lavender and possibly hops, ginseng and a teaspoon of olive oil are considered for use after a herb dose that contained agonist effects on ERα and ERβ, or for visible positive effects on the hips and breasts.
Herb combination for recent growth or swelling
In theory, there's a separate herb combination for use when there's a recent breast growth or swelling from the primary dose. Each herb is from 30mg to a rice grain size. It consists of spearmint, and lavender or sunflower provided the first herb combination had positive effects on the hips. Fennel is likely useful in addition to spearmint and lavender/sunflower during all phases except secretory. Hops can likely be used instead of fennel for this dose during secretory.
This minimal herb combination should only be used during recent breast growth or swelling from a previous full dose, or days after breast, and hip growth during proliferative phase. Waiting longer is likely to have negative results.
Lowering herb amounts
This is going to be a separate breast enhancement strategy than repeating a herb dose while there's recent breast increases or swelling. The herb theory and application for repeating a herb dose during acne will still apply: this need should be reduced when herb amounts are lowered.
To lower herb amounts, simply take less of the herbal tea, down to a sip. There may be less temporary growth, but the premise is for growth to be permanent and gradual. With a smaller dose, herb proportions will be kept, while there will be less phyto-progestins to break down into androgens and corticosteroids. For parts of the herb schedule, proportions of fenugreek will also be reduced.
Metabolites of phyto-progestins cause a bodily response later, that likely contribute to shrinkage of breast tissue. Bodies with more hop and breast tissue, and with more fat are able to metabolize larger amounts of phyto-progestins and their metabolites from herbs better. Herbal teas down to 30mg of each herb has been shown to be effective enough to cause an short-term response consistent with their expected properties.
The use of dietary fiber is also useful, and can be applied.
The idea of using less herbs containing phytoprogestins will be applicable primarily for menses.
Saw palmetto use
Saw palmetto (Serenoa) is possibly a substitute or additive for evening primrose. It may require many of the herbs that are needed for evening primrose.
Serenoa [saw palmetto] can likely be used for breast enhancement during premenstrual and menses, but it would require the rest of the herb combination.
Inclusion of evening primrose for proliferative and secretory
Evening primrose smoothly raises estrogen, but it requires phytoprogestin and estrogen antagonists for both ERα and ERβ to maintain progesterone sensitive tissue and to decrease estrogen desensitization. Evening primrose can only be used rarely during proliferative phase, and during secretory. It will work for menstruation, but it's inadvisable to use it then, because the follicle is not well enough developed at this time, to prevent extra follicle release.
When high amounts of phytoprogestin were used, there was plenty of androgenic and corticosteroid metabolites which contributed to acne. The idea is to use evening primrose, when high amounts of fenugreek, wild yam or fennel which contain diosgenin are used. Evening primrose seems to continually allow the body['s] ability to produce estrogen, which effects are increased when phyto-progesterones are broken down, providing more consistent estrogen and progesterone symptoms. Without evening primrose, when high amounts of fenugreek are used, the body either has a boomerang effect from the body adapting to high progesterone, or acne and androgen signs can occur. Evening primrose potentially offers the chance for less needing for precise timing. Evening primrose should only be used with required herbs when the follicle is developed by proliferative phase, or when the corpus luteum is present.
Use with fenugreek that had improved effects in part suggests this theory. Likely, fennel can be replaced by ginseng, and fenugreek or wild yam for use with evening primrose, but this shouldn't be tried at this time.
Evening primrose is expected to continually increase estrogen production while progesterone is breaking down into other antagonists, perhaps allowing more duration of when there's positive antagonism for estrogens and progesterones.
Evening primrose (requiring minimal amounts of fennel, sunflower and spearmint) will be reserved for the second dose of proliferative and secretory phase, after there is growth from the first dose which will include fenugreek. The dose with evening primrose, wont't include fenugreek. Evening primrose is moved back, so the other herb combination can ready the follicle's or corpus luteum's response so it can counter follicle stimulating hormone.
Cholesterol, beta-sitosterol and spirostans (diosgenin, shatavarin IV, sarasapognin) are cholestanes. Cholesterol is a precursor to progesterone and other steroids. In theory, phytosterol cholestanes are precursors to phyto-progestogens and subsequentially other phytohormones. Diosgenin has the evidence based effect of progesterone, then of androgens and corticosteroids on the body. The metabolites of cholestanes likely also antagonize different receptors while they are stimulated by their respective hormones.
Saw palmetto which contains beta-sitosterol and asparagus which contains shatavarins will be tried in place of fenugreek. The effects of fenugreek seem too potent for some, that after it causes estrogenic and progestogenic symptoms, it increases body hair faster than the body can convert estrogens from androgens.
The herb combinations for menses and premenstrual phases is similar, so the sections were merged. A major difference is that menses gives an indication on the effects of menstrual intensity.
The current herb combination for both menses and premenstrual phases is to take a sip to a gulp at a time of a tea of: 250mg hops, and 60mg each of spearmint, sunflower/lavender, fenugreek and fennel. Another sip of this tea would be taken from when breast swelling starts to subside, until acne occurs.
Wild yam, asparagus and/or thistles with similar herb combinations have caused breast swelling, often temporary.
Saw palmetto (oil) can likely be added to the base combination.
Combinations containing fenugreek, wild yam and fennel have consistently caused temporary breast swelling or growth for premenstrual and menses, but acne, androgenic symptoms or breast size fluctations to their previous size are a common occurence. The phytoprogestin Diosgenin from fenugreek, wild yam and fennel breaks down and forms into corticosteroids and androgens.
The idea is to use minimal amounts of spearmint, hops, fenugreek, wild yam, fennel, lavender and sunflower to cause breast swelling. About an hour after breast swelling occurs from the herb combination containing diosgenin, hops and spearmint will be tried. Alternatively, clover and sunflower/lavender can be tried. If ginseng were to be tried, it would at minimum require both clover and hops. Saw palmetto would likely be included with this second daily dose.
The proposed herb schedule for premenstrual is similar to the herb schedule for the first herb dose of secretory, with potential elements from menses phase. By the 3rd day, wild yam, fenugreek and fennel should be added to compensate for the lack of bodily progesterone production. Milkthistle and asparagus can be added as well. Luteal phase includes both secretory and premenstrual, but this term may be used because sometimes it is difficult to know when secretory exactly ends and when premenstrual begins.
The herb combination for premenstrual, once progesterone levels lower, will consist of: hops, fenugreek, wild yam, spearmint, fennel and lavender. Wild yam is recommended, but it can be left off. Spearmint, fennel and lavender/sunflower would be in minimal amounts. Other herbs will be 500mg or lower per dose: their proportions and results will be in other program blogs.
This herb combination will also apply to menses, when natural hormone levels are also lower.
Spearmint, fennel and lavender/sunflower are in minimal amounts to provide antagonism for receptors: AR, PR, ERα and ERβ. Hops, fenugreek, and wild yam are to provide a direct response to relevant estrogen and progesterone receptors.
For menses (menstruation), progesterone and estrogen hormone levels are typically low, so antagonist herbs require agonist herbs. FSH, LH and prolactin herbs are also required, but this doesn't fully compensate for estrogen, progesterone and androgen receptors.
A herb combination that affects all necessary receptors would seem to work, and cause temporary growth, but in theory, this temporary gain goes away while the body's hormones gradually have their effects on sensitized hormone receptors.
For the first herb use of menses (1st or 2nd day), the proposed herb schedule is: under 125mg each of spear/peppermint, sunflower/lavender and fennel, 250mg of fenugreek, and 500mg each of hops and wild yam. Hops, fenugreek and wild yam are agonist herbs for PR and ER. No more herbs are suggested for this day and for the next day.
For the next herb use day for menses, there will be proposed 2 herb combinations. The first herb combination of the day will be the same as the first herb combination for the phase. While there is swelling from the first daily herb combination, the proposed herb combination is 500mg each of hops and wild yam, and 250mg of fenugreek in an attempt to sustain results and perhaps cause further breast growth. This second daily herb combination can possibly be used after the first herb dose for menstruation.
A minimal amount each of milkthistles and/or asparagus root (shatavari) is optional with first or only daily herb combination of the day for menstruation.
When there is breast swelling during menses, that includes a phyto-progestin containing herb, the theory is to use: spearmint, fennel and sunflower. This has been tried, and there is some indication of it working, or maintaining past growth.
The theory for the herb schedule for proliferative phase is primitive at this point. Avoid this phase if you have hormone imbalances for now. The herb schedule for proliferative phase also requires more precision, and all herbs must definitely be included.
For the first dose of proliferative phase: under 125mg each of fenugreek, fennel, spear/peppermint and sunflower/lavender. A capsule or less of evening primrose can supplement or replace fenugreek [but rarely during this phase]. Under a teaspoon of olive oil is recommended with this. These variants have worked to cause hip and breast increases, and an increase in estrogen response to varying degrees when used only once. These herb combinations shouldn't be repeated again for proliferative.
Only if the first herb dose of proliferative phase has worked, then the theory is to only take under 125mg each of spearmint, lavender/sunflower/ginseng and fennel, no more than once every other day. If secretory phase comes days late, then minimal amounts of lavender and spearmint have caused ovulation to occur.
The herb combination of 125mg each of spearmint, fennel, lavender/sunflower and fenugreek for proliferative can also be used for late menses. This is useful because sometimes menses can temporarily stop.
Fenugreek use with the rest of the herb combinations used once should perhaps be limited to the first few days of proliferative, before secretions begin. Fenugreek has estrogen similes which are redundant when the body starts producing estrogen.
A day after there is swelling from the first herb dose of proliferative, the theory is to use a combination of spearmint, fennel and lavender/sunflower. 125mg each of spearmint, fennel and sunflower/lavender will be used for the first dose. When there is swelling from this, then 125mg each of spearmint and fennel will be tried. The herb schedule for proliferative phase, shouldn't be overdone, so a break should be taken after this.
The herb combination of evening primrose and 60mg each of fennel, fenugreek, spearmint and lavender/sunflower will be looked at to see if it causes both hip and breast growth effectively during the first days of proliferative. This is identical to a proven herb combination, except that doesn't have fenugreek. The effects of both of these will be compared.
The theory of these two separate combinations is based on past use. This time, fenugreek with a herb combination will be tried only once for the first few days. Evening primrose with its herb combination will be used only once, for a day or so later.
During early proliferative, when there is no mucus, the herb schedule as tea to be taken only once is 30mg each of: fenugreek, fennel, spearmint and sunflower. A pinch of lavender is optional. Then nothing else is to be taken for that day. It can take 24 hours for breast and hip growth from this.
If there hip and breast growth from that by the next day or a day later, then take no more than once 1 evening primrose capsule with a tea each of 60mg: fennel, spearmint and sunflower. An additional pinch of lavender is optional. Then don\'t take anything until the next day.
For once or twice for the rest of proliferative, a tea of a minimal amount of 30mg fennel, spearmint and sunflower/lavender can be used. Then take a break.
For proliferative phase: spearmint, fennel and sunflower seed has worked consistently well. Later during proliferative, more fennel is needed compared to the other two herbs. For some, evening primrose or fenugreek is needed early only once with the rest of the required combination.
Corresponding herbs are needed to counter each others effects on steroid hormone receptors for secretory.
The body produces progesterone during secretory phase, so beyond the first day, the progesterone simile diosgenin may not be needed. Wild yam, fenugreek and fennel contain diosgenin. Fenugreek is possibly an exception that can be used no more than once every other day, but if it is used, its use should be minimal. Wild yam won't be considered at all for secretory. There has been breast swelling by including herbs with diosgenin throughout secretory, but the result was fluctuations in breast size. Repeating a herb combination while there was breast swelling caused even more breast size fluctuations, and an overall decrease in size, after there being maximum breast size from swelling.
For secretory, on the first (or second day) day, [the proposal was]: 250 to 500mg of hops, and a minimal amount each of fenugreek, spearmint and lavender/sunflower. Then [to] take a break for a day. Milkthistles will be optional, and it can replace only half of the amount of hops.
After that, fenugreek may not be used anymore for secretory. Wild yam and fennel will be avoided for secretory. Every or every other day: spearmint, lavender/sunflower and hops will be used. Amounts of hops must be higher than spearmint, lavender and potentially other herbs. Minimal amounts of ginseng, clover, pueraria or evening primrose could potentially be added later.
When there is breast swelling, less than a teaspoon of olive oil or perhaps a miniscule amount of some other oil can be taken. Hops, clover and ginseng are potentially other options for when there's breast swelling. Effects of fenugreek, wild yam, fennel are likely temporary [, and] can likely cause a counter response from the body that produces enough progesterone after the first herb dose.
For the first or second day (first herb combination use) of secretory: under 125mg each of fenugreek, spear/peppermint, lavender/sunflower, and 250mg of hops. Milkthistles, and under 125mg of clover or pueraria are optional for this day. Then take a break for a day, so the body can balance hormones and so the corpus luteum can develop.
On the second day of herb use for secretory (past the 3rd day of this phase), the herb combination is similar to the herb combination for the first herb use combination. Ginseng can likely completely replace lavender and sunflower this day and after. It is uncertain if fenugreek can be removed, but replace fenugreek with asparagus (shatavari) root if it's available. Clover and pueraria often require fenugreek, but these two herbs have worked without fenugreek during late secretory.
When there is breast swelling for secretory from the first herb use of the day, fenugreek and fennel cannot be used. 500mg of hops must be used. Milkthistle can be used with hops. A minimal amount of ginseng, lavender or sunflower can be used. Possibly, a minimal amount of pueraria or clover can be used with these herb combinations. After taking a break for the next day, these herb combinations can be repeated again during secretory, but this time increase combined hops and thistles to 1,000mg for the herb dose to be used while there is breast swelling.
Hops and spearmint
Theory is to use only under 125mg of spearmint, and higher amounts of hops as a base dose for secretory. Hops will stimulate more progesterone from the corpus luteum, and this will replace use of fenugeek for the first day. Hops also stimulates ERα in the breasts, especially when used with spearmint. Spearmint also will maintain a balance of estrogen, smaller amounts of androgens and antagonists.
Use of hops and minimal amounts of spearmint should do. This simple combination has caused growth for secretory, but it has yet to be seen if it stays.
Clover hasn't been thoroughly tested for secretory, but it works during late secretory, and it has worked conditionally when used with fenugreek. Fenugreek is now removed for secretory phase. In theory, clover could be added with sunflower or lavender during mid secretory.
Inclusion of evening primrose
It seems that evening primrose should be used with herb combinations for secretory. The body provides progesterone during this phase, so it is uncertain if phyto-progesterone herbs should be included here. Perhaps evening primrose with herbs it requires and fenugreek should be used on the first few days, when progesterone is naturally lower.
Evening primrose should likely be used once during secretory, with required other herbs.
First two proposed doses of secretory
The theory is based on fenugreek and evening primrose similar to for proliferative phase. Fenugreek with a herb combination will be tried only once for the first few days. Evening primrose with its herb combination will be used only once, for a day or so later.
During early secretory, the herb schedule as tea to be taken only once will consist of at minimum 30mg each of: fenugreek, fennel, spearmint and sunflower. A pinch of lavender is optional. Then nothing else is to be taken for that day. This can take 24 hours for breast and hip growth from this.
If there hip and breast growth from that by the next day or a day later, then take no more than once 1 evening primrose capsule with a tea each of 60mg: fennel, spearmint and sunflower. An additional pinch of lavender is optional. Then don\'t take any herb combinations until the next day.
Then, the regular herb combination, without evening primrose nor likely fenugreek will be used. It will contain, at minimum, spearmint and hops.
Herbs for breast swelling during secretory
When there was breast swelling for secretory: hops, and lower amounts of spearmint and lavender have worked for increasing hip size and brought temporary high gains for breasts. In theory, clover may help with gains. Both clover and hops increase prolactin, which in turn increases progesterone during secretory. Clover adds agonist effects on ERβ, which may have been needed in the presence of progesterone and prolactin. Hops had these effects present on ERα. This herb combination should be used in the presence of progesterone effects on the body.