This page is still relevant for composite programs, which will remain current.
The herb schedule part of this page has recent updates as of August 2022. This herb schedule part is here for archive purposes. For the current herb schedule, see: programs/simplified.
This is a composite herbal program with birth control pill (BCP) use.
This schedule starts after menses ends. When BCP is used, ovulation is prevented from occurring, so there may not be a secretory phase. There may not be a phase, of the duration that proliferative and secretory normally occur, and these could be treated like one phase (when BCP is used).
When the pill is a placebo, and before there's menstrual shedding, that will be treated like premenstrual phase. There may be premenstrual like symptoms, during this time.
Thistles is unlikely to be helpful for this herb program, unless it is overcompensated for. This should be avoided for those with a history of hormone imbalances.
When menstrual sheding occurs, use the herb schedule for menses. Use the proliferative herb program for BCP use.
She's starting her program on proliferative-like phase.
Her starting cup size is a large A or small B cup.
She is continuing the herb schedule. Amounts of sunflower and saw palmetto are being adjusted according to symptoms.
First dose of BCP phase
She took the herb schedule for what is normally proliferative phase.
For the first tea she took of menses, the tea didn't work. First dose that worked, everything was as tea, except olive oil:
½ or 1 fennel seed
1 fenugreek seed
10 sesame seeds
5 sunflower seeds
teaspoon of olive oil on the side
It caused growth, but warming on hips and breasts that later went away. From now on, the amount of sesame to take is about 10 seeds. This first tea still needs to be improved for consistency.
For the next month, there was difficulty with the first tea to cause growth. The first one was a tea of: 1/4 of a fennel seed, 1 fenugreek seed, 10 sesame seeds, 10 sunflower seeds, and about 200mg of saw palmetto. There wasn't growth from this.
Then, the next day she took: 5 handfuls of sunflower seed, 10 individual sesame seeds, and 900mg of saw palmetto. There was growth from this one, so she will continue with the herb schedule.
Rest of BCP phase
For the rest of this phase, after the first growth, she ate:
10 sesame seeds
varying amounts of sunflower seed, from 2 seeds to 10 handfuls of sunflower
When there was elongation she added a phyto-progestin to sunflower and sesame:
At the beginning of this phase she took, 1 or 2 teaspoons of olive or coconut oil with sunflower and sesame
After a few times of sucessful growth, 250mg to 500mg of saw palmetto replaced olive or coconut oil
The next month, during secretory, growth has stalled. Many handfuls of sunflower seeds were used, [with] minimal sesame seeds and varying amounts of saw palmetto for some growth during this phase. Perhaps estrogen production may be high and there's not enough antagonism from other steroid hormones. Minimal sunflower and sesame will be used here with varying amounts of saw palmetto. Depending on the follicle's status of producing estrogen, 1 fenugreek seed might be added later.
There was continued growth, when sunflower amounts were lowered to 15 seeds, rather than handfuls. She took varying amounts of saw palmetto, 15 sesame seeds and 15 sunflower seeds at a time.
Sunflower is lowered to 5 seeds, and sesame remains at 10 seeds, now that estrogen response is high. If acne or bloating occur, she will increase sunflower seed. Saw palmetto with these amounts are being used. When BCP becomes placebo for premenstrual-like phase, 1 fenugreek seed may be added to this.
Early February entry
These are no longer teas. Normally start off small, with minimal amounts, and only increase amounts of sunflower and phyto-progestin after there's several successes.
When progestogenic signs were high, she left out olive or coconut oil and saw palmetto. When breasts stopped getting wide, or when they elongated, she used olive oil, coconut oil or saw palmetto.
There was succesful growth so far from both olive oil and saw palmetto.
Around the time secretory occurs, she will continute the herb schedule for proliferative phase, or perhaps try the herb schedule for secretory. She might take a break for about 3 days around the time ovulation normally occurs.
When breasts were still wide, she took: 10 handfuls of sunflower seed and 10 (individual) sesame seeds. An hour later, she took 450mg of saw palmetto, 10 handfuls of sunflower seed and 10 sesame seeds. There was noticeable breast growth.
She ate: 2,500mg saw palmetto, 1 fenugreek seed, 10 sesame seeds, and 15 handfuls of sunflower. This gave her breast growth, but also a headache. Then she ate: 900mg saw palmetto, 1 fenugreek seed, 10 sesame seeds, and 1 individual sunflower seed. Because saw palmetto was lower in this dose, than the previous dose, it may of had to be taken more often. Her headache went away. There was growth to a large B cup, during this time.
Then, she will eat: 1 fenugreek seed, 10 sesame seeds and 15 handfuls of sunflower. After swelling or growth from that, she will repeat that, but add 900mg of saw palmetto.
Her breasts became engorged. Then she will try, a dose with 1 fenugreek seed, and more sunflower and sesame seed: 10 handfuls of sunflower, 2 handfuls of sesame and 1 saw palmetto capsule. The high amounts of sesame and sunflower are intended to increase estrogen. After that, sesame seed must return to 10 seeds in another dose within a day, like the previous doses that were: 1 fenugreek seed, 10 sesame seeds, varying sunflower and saw palmetto.
When her breasts were engorged, she took: 5 handfuls of sunflower seed, sesame seed, 1 saw palmetto capsule and 1 fenugreek seed. Later that day, she took 5 handfuls of sunflower seed, 10 individual sesame seeds, 1 saw palmetto capsule and 1 fenugreek seed. The second dose in the day had to have a minimal amount of 10 sesame seeds. There was growth from this.
Lady L started at near an A or B cup, and is using birth control pills in her program. Her results are documented from March 2020 until April 2020.
Bust: 88 cm; Underbust: 78cm
Menses: not ideal herbal tea taken and recoupment
She took a tea of: (1 sunflower seed size of) hops, (rice size each of) fenugreek and spearmint, (10 each of) flax and sunflower, and (1 strand of) milkthistles.
After the recommendation was made, there was too much flax and sunflower. [I realized this was too much sunflower and flax seed hours before she took the previously suggested herb amount.] Unwanted symptoms [came] hours later [, particularly heavy menses]. Unfortunately, BCP for these few days [are] placebo [pills that weren't able to compensate for the additional amounts of flax and sunflower seed].
When she gets acne, pimples or unfavorable heavy estrogenic/androgenic symptoms, she [took] minimal parts each of: fenugreek, spearmint, hops and sunflower. This may not cause breast growth, but it is expected to lower menstruation and improve potential symptoms.
There wasn't breast growth, but menses intensity lowered after taking the last herb dose [of minimal fenugreek, spearmint, hops and sunflower].
Minimal hops should have been used in place of thistles. 10 sesame seeds, now replaces spearmint. The herb schedule to take is while there's menstrual shedding is menses: this part of the schedule is the same regardless of BCP use, and is primarily to lower menstruation intensity.
Once, for early proliferative, before mucus starts, with BCP she will take a tea of: 1 fenugreek seed, a minimal amount of spearmint, 1 sunflower seed and 1 flax seed.
For later days of proliferative, after mucus starts, she will replace fenugreek seed with 1 fennel seed per tea. This will be with BCP, and likely one more time a day, when breast shape goes from wider to longer.
Her breasts are fuller from the first herbal dose.
She continued with tea of minimal fennel, sunflower and spearmint. This was repeated too soon, so it set back proliferative, but didn't restart menses. Days later, mucus was like that of the beginning of proliferative, so she took tea of minimal spearmint, fenugreek and sunflower seed. This was days ago; then the cycle progressed to secretory phase. Breasts are slightly firmer at this time; hips likely grew.
Jellie's old program
Beginning of her program
The picture on the left is at the start of Jellie's program in January, 2020. She used BCP and a hormone contraceptive implant.
At the start of BCP phase, she took a tea of: fennel, sunflower, spearmint and fenugreek. 1 fenugreek seed can only be used on the first day of this phase. Spearmint was replaced by 10 sesame seeds, and fennel has been replaced with another phyto-progestin.
The image on the right is a few days in to her program. Bust size is 36" C cup in this image.
Evening primrose was used in part for the herb combination for results in the image on the right. Evening primrose is no longer recommended because it raises FSH, which may not be sustainable for reproductive health. Growth for the rest of her program was gained without primrose.
Maximum growth a month apart
The image on the bottom left is 2 weeks after starting. Measurements are: 37" bust; D cup. Underside measurements are: ≈ 4" and 3¼".
The image to the right of that is less than a month after that, of an E cup.
Evening primrose wasn't needed for gains shown in the bottom pictures.
For the results on the bottom, she took: fennel, varying amounts of sunflower, and minimal amounts of spearmint. For the results on the bottom right, fennel was reduced to a minimal amount. Fennel and spearmint have been replaced since then.
This herb schedule has recent updates as of August 2022, but has soon become obsolete. This herb schedule is here for archive purposes. For the current herb schedule, see: programs/simplified.
This program uses the same rules as the proliferative herb schedule. There are also additional details for BCP use, when using the proliferative phase herb schedule. This also documents examples or descriptions of growth for BCP use. Continue taking BCP as you normally would.
Look for signs of hip growth, primarily.
In these programs, sesame is reduced to 5 seeds, while not looking for immediate breast growth, but instead to cause a better hormone balance. Older programs below show examples of 10 seeds, however, the amount needs to be lowered to 5 seeds. For this phase, sesame use is limited to acne and when breast temperature is warm, and it needs 15 to 20 sunflower seeds with it.
For early proliferative phase, swelling and bloating need to be lowered, before continuing with the herb schedule. Minimal sunflower seed at a time can be used to gradually lower swelling, puffiness or bloating.
Proliferative-like phase, optionally taken with BCP
If there's no swelling and no acne, the collowing can optionally be taken with BCP, is: 15 to 20 sunflower seeds and ½ tsp olive oil. Coconut oil, wild yam or a saw palmetto capsule of any amount can replace olive oil here.
The rest of for proliferative-like phase depends on signs
15 sunflower seed, 5 sesame seeds when there's acne and breast warmness, no more often than about every 1.5 hours. 15 sunflower seeds, when there's swelling, bloating or breast swelling shape, and no acne, no more often than every hour. When estrogenic signs like negative mood or when breast elongation without swelling shape occur: olive oil.
See the herb program for proliferative phase to continue with proliferative-like phase based on signs.
After proliferative-like phase
When sunflower causes acne, proliferative-like phase may be over. This may be its own phase. Once that occurs, a schedule like for luteal phase is a possibility for growth.