Background: attempting to treat a bad case of hirsutism
In this case, progesterone [bovine ovary], birth controls pills and sterol treatments for cortisoids have contributed to excess female body hair and minor scalp hair loss. [Menstruation was irregular and frequent, and there were hot-flashes.]
Progesterone cream and birth control pills were used [before] in an attempt to treat androgenic symptoms. Then sterol treatments were used to treat metabolic symptoms, inadvertently compounding androgenic problems. Progesterone and birth control pills have a reputation for correcting hormone imbalances. In situations where there is low estrogen production, this was not the case. Progestogens are the precursors to mineralocorticoids, glucocorticoids and androgens. Estrogens are formed from [most] androgens. I suspect that the lack of estrogen production allowed supplemented progesterone and herbs that stimulate prolactin production to contribute to androgen and mineralocortisoid congestion.
If only the body's production of estrogen could be stimulated.
Theory of Herbs for Secretory Phase to Increase Estrogen Responses
Production of estrogen from the ovarian follicle and estrogenic responses from the body are obviously important.
Fenugreek raises androgens, estrogens and progesterones together, and it has a reputation for nourishing the ovary. Fenugreek has antagonistic effects, which should be beneficial for bodily production of hormones. It also has a reputation for nourishing the ovaries. Vitex generally only works once during secretory phase, and it according to literature has similar hormone raising properties as [probably shatavari (asparagus),] fenugreek and suma, with the exception that vitex then lowers hormones.
Evening primrose raises FSH, but its effect during proliferative phase wasn't fully understood in relation to the ovarian follicle. It worked well for those with sufficient body fat and estrogenic balance. During secretory phase, evening primrose in combination with fennel has consistently worked to cause breast growth and lower hot flashes. Evening primrose with fennel has also caused breast shape to get wider and shorter during secretory. If timed right for some during proliferative phase, evening primrose and fennel caused breast shape to grow in width and length. Lengthening of the breast implies an estrogenic effect, while widening of the breast implies a progestogenic effect. Fennel lowers FSH, and it has mild prolactin like and progestogenic properties. Evening primrose and fennel together are likely to enhance FSH response. During secretory phase, evening primrose and fennel together seemed to have a progestogenic effect on the breasts, and based on lowering of hot-flashes a sufficient estrogenic effect on the ovaries.
From the effects of evening primrose and fennel during proliferative and secretory phases, there are premises of adding an herbal estrogenic analog that affects ER-beta, and combining evening primrose and fennel with fenugreek. Sunflower has worked conditionally to improve estrogenic signs. One idea is for sunflower seed to provide additional estrogenic antagonism when taken with evening primrose and fennel during secretory phase, while not increasing estrogen enough to interrupt the cycle. The other idea is for evening primrose and fennel to work synergistically with fenugreek to improve ovarian response of estrogen. Someone else, who doesn't have estrogen deficiency, will try both of these combinations first.
Hot-flashes have Subsided
Hot-flashes have subsided, but it is not certain if this is from evening primrose later balancing itself out. BCP has caused breast growth, but this is likely primarily progestogenic growth, and it caused worsening of facial features. BCP is probably better than many combinations, but this is likely not improving the situation.
After Taking Evening Primrose, Sunflower and Fennel [proliferative phase]
She took a drop of evening primrose, a minimal amount of fennel and sunflower seed still during proliferative phase, October 25. It immediately caused breast pains. After minor breast pains went away, it caused slight breast shrinking and frequent urination. The last time this happened, taking sunflower seed, olive oil and fiber increased signs of estrogen, and it normalized frequency of urination. Sunflower seed has also normalized body temperature and reduced hot-flashes, when taken during the effects of evening primrose, during proliferative phase.
It seems that during proliferative phase, sunflower seed can only be used for positive results in the presence of the effects of evening primrose and possibly when there is acne. Sunflower seed alone, caused breast shrinking, similarly to how estrogen cream by itself caused hirsutism. I was apprehensive about suggesting more sunflower seed, even though this was likely to improve estrogenic symptoms, as it has seemed to under some conditions in the past. She has taken a break.
Evening Primrose and Sunflower for Proliferative Phase?
Follicle stimulating hormone and estrogen develop the ovarian follicle. Estrogen cream and sunflower seed has caused hot-flashes or worsening hirsutism for her before. Other times, sunflower and estrogen cream has slightly lessened androgenic symptoms. Sunflower has estrogenic compounds, that seem to behave more like bodily estrogen, than that of other phytoestrogens.
In the past, when primrose was used, it caused hot-flashes, but no signs of additional hirsutism by the next day. It seemed as if there were increased estrogenic signs on the lower body, but signs of lowered estrogen on the upper body. When she drank water, her hot-flashes got worse, and it caused urination. When she took fiber, sunflower seed and fats, her body temperature lowered to a normal value.
Another time, mint, fennel, evening primrose and sunflower were used, which increased estrogenic signs. When I followed up with evening primrose, the positive results went away.
I later had trouble repeating positive outcomes. When evening primrose or sunflower seed were used alone during early proliferative phase, signs of estrogen deficiency increased. Mint, fennel and evening primrose together didn't work well either. Mint and evening primrose both raised FSH. Fennel lowers FSH, which is expected to antagonize for an increase of FSH output. What was likely missing is the combination of evening primrose and sunflower seed, which, when used roughly with the effects of each other, had shown positive signs.
The theory is that evening primrose, which increases FSH, increased production of estrogen by the follicle, which was not immediately enough to overcome FSH [in the upper body]. Evening primrose with sunflower seed should maintain a positive hormonal effect on the ovarian follicle. For those who are not estrogen deficient and have more body fat, the effects of evening primrose are balanced out more quickly and consistently with fewer noticeable decreases in estrogen production, until the body is capable of increasing estrogen levels.
Circumstantial Effects of Estrogen Cream
When estrogen cream is used, sometimes it improves symptoms of hirsutism, and other times it makes it worse. When there was acne, which is a sign of a presence of varying hormones, adding estrogen cream caused face puffiness, and slightly increased estrogenic symptoms. Other times, estrogen cream caused hot-flashes and worsening hirsutism. When one hormone is present largely by itself, it desensitizes receptors, and negatively affects the production of healthy hormone production. Supplemented estrogen requires a counteracting hormone or antagonist.
Chasteberry for Late Secretory Phase
This is about Vitex use from September during late secretory phase. She had hot-flashes during this time. When she used chasteberry, her hot-flashes went away and her breasts got swelling. This herb temporarily raises estrogen, progesterone and androgens, which can explain the improvement from estrogen deficiency. However, Vitex only worked once, because after it ends secretory phase, vitex shrinks the breasts.
Fenugreek and suma are likely replacements for vitex during secretory phase to alleviate hot-flashes, because they increase estrogen, androgens and progestogens together.
Working on snapping out of hormone imbalance. Hot-flashes were stopped, and there are more signs of estrogen. There are also less androgenic symptom increases. It has been difficult to reach the parts of the schedule to use certain herbs to upregulate estrogen [capacity] to promote breast growth. Extracts of certain herbs won't do, where miniscule amounts of tea or solid herb is needed.
Next Cycle has Already Begun
The next menstrual cycle has already started. It was light, and it temporarily halted for a day, then resumed. No herbs were taken [yet] during this time.
Once it restarted, pueraria was taken, and it lowered body temperature, which is an indicator of increased estrogen, but breast size was unaffected.
On the second day after menstruation stopped, she took a minimal amount of fenugreek and a smaller amount of lavender. This combination caused breast tingling, but it possibly made androgenic signs worse. It hasn't caused growth yet, and I don't expect it to by tomorrow.
In her case, fenugreek alone has worked to cause breast swelling around this time. Once estrogen rises during proliferative phase, fenugreek is not expected to work. When estrogen is low, lavender doesn't work.
Hops pairs with mint, but a prolactin raising herb won't work during proliferative phase. Mint does not pair with lavender for growth, unless the body is already estrogenic.
The future plan is to avoid lavender for the begining of proliferative phase, as well as menstruation.
Perhaps, fennel can be used with mint for proliferative phase, because use of hops is counterproductive here. Perhaps, fenugreek can optionally be added to that combination before estrogen rises, only if there is more mint than fennel. Also wondering if evening primrose oil with fennel can be used together for early proliferative phase.
The Next Day of Using Estrogen Cream
Today, her oral temperature was 36.6°C, and her under arm temperature was 36.4°C. There was no apparent increase in androgenic symptoms. Her face was puffy today. Perhaps the puffiness is from the conflict of [progesterones,] estrogen and androgens. Lavender will not be used [at this time], because its use is risky, when there is still an abundance in androgenic symptoms.
Estrogen cream? [during proliferative phase]
This morning, she had hot-flashes and high temperature (including fever). Her arm temperature was 37.3°C. I was hesitant to suggest use of estrogen cream, knowing about how hormones can downregulate, or potentially make problems worse.
When she mentioned she had acne, I suggested for her to apply topical estrogen cream where she had acne. I didn't expect estrogen cream to have a positive effect without the presence of acne. Soon after she used it, her arm temperature was 36.3°C, and for reference her oral temperature was 36.5°C. Her fever went down.
Her arm and oral temperature both varied by an increase of .1°C later. Afterwards, she had itching in her hips and minor breast pains. Hopefully, by tomorrow, this is a good sign. Itching or minor pains in the breast usually mean shrinking or growth by the next day.
Androgenic and Hairloss Problems Still Unresolved
Body temperature was lowering a week ago, July 27th, a day after taking primrose. Primrose has normally raised temperature, then lowered it during menstruation and early proliferative phase. Balanced fats, vitamin C and fiber were working to lower temperature to 36.4°C over the course of a day, last month.
This cycle, fennel and lavender were taken prematurely [during proliferative phase], then temperature raised, and the problem stopped getting better. Today, cervical mucus occured which is a sign of estrogen production, but temperature remains high. Taking a break, waiting for estrogen to increase on its own.
Early Proliferative Phase
Using fennel/lavender and evening primrose too early set back the cycle during proliferative phase, and caused breast shrinking.
When there is lack of cervical mucus, fennel/lavender and evening primrose cause adverse symptoms. When cervical mucus secretion just starts and is thick, it is still too early to use evening primrose and fennel/lavender.
Mint/lavender [tea] has worked in the past for [others during late] proliferative phase. As noted in the past on an unrelated herbal program, larger amounts [than 1,500mg] of [solid] mint absolutely promote androgenic symptoms [regardless of phase, or part of phase].
During menstruation and early proliferative phase, many herbs known for their estrogenic properties made hirsutism and other negative symptoms worse.
Temperature went as high as 37° [during proliferative phase]. Throughout the course of the day, body temperature dropped to 36.6°. Body temperature closer to 36° is associated with estrogen presence or hormonal balance outside of secretory phase.
Sunflower seeds did not seem to raise body temperature [taken after pueraria], and they possibly contributed to lowering body temperature.
When there is acne, there is potential for breast growth. Acne often subsides, and itchy scalp often signifies upcoming excessive androgenic symptoms. She asks if most forms of androgens cause acne, and if dihydrotestosterone (DHT) causes hirsutism symptoms. I am unsure if [acne] has to do with a combination of other hormones. Hormones in the androgen class behave the same, except DHT is powerful and cannot be converted into estrogens.
Fennel, Lavender and Evening Primrose During Menstruation and Early Proliferative Phase
Fennel taken by itself didn't cause noticeable signs during menstruation and early proliferative phase. When fennel was taken with a pinch of lavender [during early proliferative phase], androgenic symptoms came about. There were breast pains or itching, but shrinking also came soon after.
When evening primrose was taken during menstruation and early proliferative phase, there was a raise in body temperature and breast shrinking. Primrose did not cause [other] androgenic symptoms, however.
Lavender upregulates Estrogen Receptor Beta, and in the presence of heavy androgens, this is unsuitable.
Evening Primrose, Fennel and Lavender
Evening primrose, fennel and lavender were investigated for their efficacy in treating excessive androgens and its symptoms. When fennel and lavender were taken [together] during menstruation, androgenic symptoms increased dramatically, and body temperature [rose].
General use of these herbs
For separate past herbal trials, a few days into proliferative phase, fennel and lavender together have shown minor breast growth. During [late] secretory phase, fennel and lavender [have] decreased body temperature, and slightly reduced androgenic symptoms.
Measuring body temperature is a way of trying to determine estrogenic balance of the body.
If used during the wrong time, Primrose alone raised body temperature, but it did not [noticeably] increase [other] androgenic symptoms. Fennel and lavender together caused breast shrinkage and a heavy increase in androgenic symptoms if used during the wrong phase. In the past, [a few] days into proliferative phase and during secretory phase, primrose, lavender and fennel together lowered body temperature and increased estrogenic responses. The idea was to use primrose to test whether fennel and lavender can be taken on a day without adverse effects. Fennel and lavender needed to be taken [late]a few days into proliferative phase for [their] use to be successful. Lavender [when] used by itself, did not work well for [most parts of] any phase.
Nutrition for Insulin Sensitivity and Excess Hormones
We'll look at improving insulin resistance and removing excess hormones with nutrition and diet.
Healthy and balanced fats have a reputation for being used to improve insulin sensitivity. Vitamins C, D and E also show improvements according to studies. In this case, healthy fats, vitamin C, and vitamin D, did not make the problem worse. They possibly helped the situation. Vitamin E supplementation wasn't taken yet.
Fiber is supposed to be able to carry away excessive hormones from the body. Not enough fiber was taken [by her during this time] to determine whether its effects would be significant.
Sunflower seed, known for estrogenic properties, taken during menstruation did not make problems worse, and it possibly helped.